8 comments

  • whizzter 1 hour ago
    Researcher/academics pay/promotoins should be contingent on reviewing,challenging and reproducing papers rather than publishing quantity, because publishing cartels and AI has already degraded most research fields.
    • humanfromearth9 40 minutes ago
      No. You can't spend all your money on rehashing past results. Some, OK, all, not. In many fields, the money is needed for discovery.
      • 7734128 34 minutes ago
        Discovery is quite worthless if the discovery can't be trusted enough to continue building upon.
    • pjc50 32 minutes ago
      Should be, but you've got to tell the funders that.
    • ktallett 1 hour ago
      Reproducibility in many scientific as areas has been made almost impossible. We have got to the stage where IP matters more than scientific rigour so methodology is purposely left out.
  • BrtByte 2 hours ago
    Feels like the minimum standard should be sharing the exact query/design choices and being very explicit about what biases the analysis can and cannot address
  • fn-mote 6 hours ago
    My assumption is the credibility of a non-PhD-holding medical student’s research is 0, just like (almost) any other inexperienced researcher.
    • thomasfedb 4 hours ago
      As a clinician-academic who published in The Lancet during medical school, I think this goes a bit far. Unfortunately student doctors are encouraged to publish whether or not they actually have an interest in research… but that shouldn’t discount the work of those who are genuinely engaged.

      But certainly we should always approach the literature critically, including the author list, journal of publication and its peer-review practices, and the methods.

      • gbnwl 14 minutes ago
        As usual HN posters are hyper aware of other's credentials while ignoring that their BS in CS (if that) doesn't magically qualify them to assess everything in every domain.

        "I'm a software engineer, I'm sure if I had the time to study Neuroscience, I'd figure out what all of these researchers failed to realize all these decades! I (alone) have the magic of critical and logical thinking"

      • BrtByte 2 hours ago
        I think this is the right distinction
      • bflesch 3 hours ago
        I was severely disillusioned about the quality of clinical studies.

        Would you publish if the head honcho of your double-blind study insists to know what treatment a certain patient is receiving?

        You have this discussion about research ethics and subsequent beratement once, and then you either mentally check out or go to another hospital.

    • niekmaas 3 hours ago
      Well, that is a statement..! As an MD PhD with over 60 (co-)publications including multiple in top 1% journals I can say for sure that this is untrue. Of course this may be different per topic and country, but there is perfect research being published by non-PhD scientists. In fact, the PI from a top-tier US university I collaborate with for over 10 years doesn't even have a PhD.
      • KeplerBoy 3 hours ago
        You can be a PI without having a PhD?
        • internet_user 1 hour ago
          Even Hassabis found time to do a PhD. This is extra strange.
    • BrtByte 2 hours ago
      A med student can absolutely contribute useful work, especially with good supervision. The issue is more that inexperienced authors plus publication pressure plus easy tooling is a bad combination
    • sebmellen 4 hours ago
      This is really far too broad a brush.

      Do most medical students publish useless case studies trying to jockey for residency spots and signal hustle/devotion? No doubt!

      But there are a good handful of medical students who are still (surprisingly) in it for the medicine and not the money. And that handful is exceedingly capable; no reason they can’t publish valuable work with the right collaborators and resources.

      • myroon5 4 hours ago
        > no reason they can’t publish valuable work with the right collaborators

        Despite h-index claiming to balance quantity and quality, it obviously incentives quantity over quality (no single publication can increment h-index as much as churning out a few worthless publications that cite each other); med students overwhelmingly follow those incentives trying to secure better residencies

      • mishellaneous 2 hours ago
        in that case, it's a question of proportion. we cannot automatically conclude that a (supposed) "good handful" doing good research makes up for "most students" doing bad research.
    • samuraijack 2 hours ago
      LLVM was a masters thesis project (not medicine related but research by non PhDs should not be disregarded imo)
      • philipallstar 1 hour ago
        LLVM was a thing that demonstrated its value by working when you used it. And you can't judge a population (all non-PhD theses) by its tippety-top performers, particularly when there are poor incentives involved.
    • elendilm 49 minutes ago
      What has PhD got to do with anything. Research is research regardless of who does it if using proper scientific method.

      Such obvious common sense appears not obvious after all.

    • aardvark92 4 hours ago
      I guess it depends on who the coauthors and PI are - some academic mentors can be overly trusting and ‘hands-off.’ A lone medical student’s self published paper shouldn’t be worth much though…
    • mishellaneous 2 hours ago
      a friend of a friend who did a stint in biomedical academia told me that the researchers in their field did not hold research coming from the medicine community in high regard
      • boelboel 25 minutes ago
        Knew a professor statistics from a world renowned institution. He worked in nephrology for 10-20 years and would tell many stories about the worst practices he's seen and researchers pushed him to allow.

        Medicine was among the worst if not the worst according to him. Didn't really want much to do with it anymore. Basically a case of subpar statistical knowledge and bad incentives.

    • bflesch 3 hours ago
      In the end it is about personal integrity and idealism, no matter what the titles are.

      Totally different if someone's self image is that of a researcher for benefit of humankind or if they pick the career because they want to drive a Porsche.

    • NotGMan 4 hours ago
      Since we have seen that 50%+ of findings even in medical and other natural sciences are not repruductible it's obvious that even PhD people are mostly incompetent.
  • internet_user 1 hour ago
    admissions and residency matching give a lot of weight to "research output", aka publications.

    For residency, the two most important things are: 1) board scores. 2) research output.

    It's not uncommon to see 40-50 publications for competitive residencies.

    incentives, incentives, incentives.

  • rimworld 2 hours ago
    AI BS sourced from even more BS
  • OutOfHere 6 hours ago
    They're just generating observational hypotheses for future investigators to examine further and maybe test in a trial. It should be presented as an observational hypothesis.
  • kevinten10 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • feverzsj 5 hours ago
    90% biomedicine papers are bullshit. These students are just practicing bullshit.
    • DarkNova6 4 hours ago
      90% of statistics on the internet are made up anyway
      • flexagoon 29 minutes ago
        "Don't believe random quotes on the internet"

        - Albert Einstein