Understanding C++ Ownership System

(blog.aiono.dev)

38 points | by todsacerdoti 3 hours ago

7 comments

  • jurschreuder 1 hour ago
    I don't know why people use 'new' and 'delete' in all the examples how memory in C++ works because you never normally use them during coding only if you want to make your own container which you might do once to learn about the internals.

    C++ by default creates objects by value (opposed to any other language) and when the variable goes out of scope the variable is cleaned up.

    'new' you use when you want to make a global raw pointer outside of the normal memory system is how I would see it. You really never use it normally at least I don't.

    A good rule of thumb is not to use 'new'.

    • mgaunard 6 minutes ago
      even when you write your own container, you do not use new and delete.
    • johnnyanmac 39 minutes ago
      Yes, and no?

      In production, odds are you are relying on allocators or containers others already wrote. You coming in in 2026 may not ever use the keywords directly, but you'll either be using abstractions that handle that for you (be it STL or something internal) or using some custom allocation call referring to memory already allocated.

      But yes, I'd say a more general rule is "allocate with caution".

    • unclad5968 1 hour ago
      It just makes for an easily understandable example. I don't think the post is advocating for the use of new/delete over smart pointers.
    • mikepurvis 1 hour ago
      Yup, just emplace the object directly into the container, or at worst create it by value and then add it to the container with std::move.
    • vlovich123 1 hour ago
      And yet, I interviewed 10 people easily where I was using new and delete in the example code and only one person asked "hey - can we use unique_ptr?".
      • johannes1234321 1 hour ago
        Well in interviews this is tricky. Sometimes the interviewer wants to see I can new/delete properly, sometimes this tells me "well, if that's the style they are using I better go elsewhere"

        If it's done as part of a "here is legacy code, suggest ways to improve it" question one should point it out, though.

      • oxag3n 1 hour ago
        Ownership problems with pointer/references don't end with allocation.

        A codebase can use only std::make_unique() to allocate heap, and still pass around raw pointers to that memory (std::unique_ptr::get()).

        The real problem is data model relying on manual lifetime synchronization, e.g. pass raw pointer to my unique_ptr to another thread, because this thread joins that thread before existing and killing the unique_ptr.

      • mackeye 1 hour ago
        many schools (like mine) don't teach unique pointers in the pure "programming" class sequence, but offer a primer in advanced classes where c++ happens to be used, with the intent to teach manual memory management for a clearer transition to e.g. upper-levels which use c.
    • duped 1 hour ago
      People use `new` and `delete` when explaining memory in C++ because those are the language primitives for allocating and releasing memory in C++.

      That rule of thumb is only a useful rule if you don't care about how memory works and are comfortable with abstractions like RAII. That's fine for lots of real code but dismissing `new` and `delete` on principle is not interesting or productive for any discussion.

  • cocoto 1 hour ago
    Why are some examples full of errors? The `set_vec` method for instance does not bind the reference, you can't change the reference itself... so the code would simply copy the vector and there would be no dangling reference... And `B` is missing a constructor since the default constructor would be ill-formed (you can't default initialize a reference).

    Anyway the article is quite approachable, do not take my criticism to shy away from writing!

    • pixelesque 40 minutes ago
      Yeah, that example's totally wrong, as you say, the std::vector<int> would get copied by value, so there'd be no issue at all.
  • Dwedit 2 hours ago
    C++: Where you can accidentally deallocate an object that's still in the call stack. (true story)
    • HarHarVeryFunny 1 hour ago
      The trouble with C++ is that it maintains backwards compatibility with C, so every error-prone thing you could do in C, you can still do in C++, even though C++ may have a better way.

      The modern, safest, way to use C++, is to use smart pointers rather than raw pointers, which guarantee that nothing gets deleted until there are no more references to it, and that at that point it will get deleted.

      Of course raw pointers and new/delete, even malloc/free, all have their uses, and without these low level facilities you wouldn't be able to create better alternatives like smart pointers, but use these at your own peril, and don't blame the language if you mess up, when you could have just done it the safe way!

      • Conscat 3 minutes ago
        The modern safest way to use C++ involves lifetime annotations and ownership annotations run under multiple built-in Clang constraint solvers, but this isn't what most users do.
      • simonask 15 minutes ago
        The trouble with C++ is that it maintains backward compatibility with C++.
      • aw1621107 1 hour ago
        > which guarantee that nothing gets deleted until there are no more references to it, and that at that point it will get deleted.

        To be more precise, C++'s smart pointers will ensure something is live while specific kinds of references the smart pointer knows about are around, but they won't (and can't) catch all references. For example, std::unique_ptr ensures that no other std::unique_ptr will own its object and std::shared_ptr will not delete its object while there are other std::shared_ptrs around that point to the same object, but neither can track things like `std::span`/`std::string_view`/other kinds of references into their object.

        • HarHarVeryFunny 39 minutes ago
          I was just talking about ownership and smart pointers.

          C++'s non-owning "view" classes are a different matter, and the issue there isn't ownership but lifetime of the view vs the underlying data the view is referencing (which in case of string_view could be literally anywhere - a local array of char, a malloc'd block of memory, etc!!).

          I'm not a fan of a lot of the (relatively) more recent additions to C++. I think C++14 was about the peak! Given that C++ is meant to be usable as a systems programming language, not just for applications, and given that many new features being added to C++ are really library additions, not language ones, then it's important for the language to include unsafe lower level facilities than can be used for things like that, but actually encouraging application developers to use classes like this that are error-prone by design seems questionable!

          • aw1621107 30 minutes ago
            > I was just talking about ownership and smart pointers.

            Sure, I was just clarifying that "references" in the bit I quoted covers specific things and not everything with reference-like behavior.

    • kccqzy 2 hours ago
      You can also do that intentionally and correctly. After all `delete this;` is a valid statement that can occasionally be useful. That said, I’ve only seen this in old pre-C++11 code that does not adhere to the RAII best practice.
    • einpoklum 2 hours ago
      Well, you can also write:

         int x = 123;
         delete &x;
      
      and that would compile. But it's not a very good idea and you should be able to, well, not do that.

      In modern C++, we avoid allocating and deallocating ourselves, as much as possible. But of course, if you jump to arbitrary code, or overwrite something that's due as input for deallocation with the wrong address, or similar shenanigans, then - it could happen.

  • vqsubu16 59 minutes ago
    Why there is the calling of "read(buffer.get());" in the first example (inside of the 'while' loop)?

    It is a 'char *buffer' type, unless I'm mistaken raw pointers don't have methods/member functions?

    • dundarious 57 minutes ago
      copy-paste error given the next example uses a smart ptr type that has a .get() to get the actual pointer.
  • dpsych 1 hour ago
    I think in the `Move` section the delete[] should be delete[] old_buffer; rather than new_buffer;
  • jesse__ 2 hours ago
    Does anyone reading this have links to people who have written specifically about a C++ ownership model that rejects the smart_ptr/RAII/friends model in favor of an ownership model that embraces bulk allocations, arenas, freelists, etc? I know there are groups of highly productive programmers that feel the traditional C++ ownership model is hot garbage, and I'd love a resource that puts down specific arguments against it, but I've never come across one myself.

    Edit: clarity

    • rubymamis 2 hours ago
      I'm interested in the same! There are plenty of resources for C[1][2]. I just looked into my old notes and found a post for C++[3].

      [1] https://btmc.substack.com/p/memory-unsafety-is-an-attitude-p...

      [2] https://www.gingerbill.org/series/memory-allocation-strategi...

      [3] https://dmitrysoshnikov.com/compilers/writing-a-pool-allocat...

      • jesse__ 1 hour ago
        Nice, thanks. I haven't read those gingerbill ones, I'll take a look :D
    • HarHarVeryFunny 1 hour ago
      Those types of allocation technique were common back in the day for efficiency reasons, maybe still relevant for things like embedded programming where you need to be more careful about memory usage and timing, but I would say that nowadays for normal application usage you are better off using smart pointers.

      It's not a matter of one being strictly better than the other, but rather about using the right tool for the job.

      • jesse__ 52 minutes ago
        Many soft-realtime systems make use of these techniques, specifically 3D graphics and game engines.
    • verall 2 hours ago
      If you have requirements for high performance then the traditional C++ "ownership model" (I would say a better description is "ownership strategy") is definitely "slow". It's pretty "safe" in that you usually aren't going to leak a bunch with it but bull allocations, arenas, and freelists are all potentially faster. And you wouldn't use them if they were slower since they're (usually) more to deal with.

      But even in software using these strategies, they probably will be using different ownership strategies in different parts of the code. Once you're writing high performance code, you will use specific strategies that give you the best results. But it's completey domain specific.

    • nwlieb 2 hours ago
      Yes: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xt1KNDmOYqA

      Title: “ Casey Muratori | Smart-Pointers, RAII, ZII? Becoming an N+2 programmer”

      • jesse__ 1 hour ago
        Good one. I was blessed to have the opportunity to watch that one live, on stream. It's always stuck with me and, now that I think about it, is the best resource I know of that puts those ideas into words/writing.
    • aw1621107 2 hours ago
      > explicitly rejects the smart_ptr/RAII/friends model in favor of bulk allocations, arenas, freelists, etc?

      These aren't mutually exclusive; you can use the former to manage the latter, after all.

      > I know there are groups of highly productive programmers that feel the traditional C++ ownership model is hot garbage

      I'm not aware of links off the top of my head, but I can try to summarize the argument.

      From my understanding, the argument against RAII/etc. has more to do with the mindset it supposedly encourages more than the concept itself - that RAII and friends makes it easy to think more in terms of individual objects/elements/etc. instead of batches/groups, and as a result programmers tend to follow the easy path which results in less performant/more complex code. By not providing such a feature, so the argument goes, programmers no longer have access to a feature which makes less-efficient programming patterns easy and so batched/grouped management of resources becomes more visible as an alternative.

      • jesse__ 1 hour ago
        Agreed. I guess I'm interested in anyone that's specifically written about ownership strategies that lean into the group allocation thing.
    • otherjason 2 hours ago
      What makes you think that RAII- and arena-based strategies are in tension with one another? RAII and smart pointers are more related to the ownership and resource management model. Allocating items in bulk or from arenas is more about where the underlying resources and/or memory come from. These concepts can certainly be used in tandem. What is the substance of the argument that RAII, etc. are "hot garbage?"
      • jesse__ 1 hour ago
        In reverse order they were asked ..

        The best argument I've ever come across against using RAII is that you end up with these nests of objects pointing to one another, and if something fails, the cleanup code can really only do one thing, which is unwind and deallocate (or whatever the cleanup path is). This structure, generally, precludes the possibility of context dependent resource re-usage on initialization failure, or on deallocation, because you kind of have to have only one deallocation path. Obviously, you could imagine supporting in an RAII context, but, the point is that you probably have to put a fair bit of conscious effort into doing that, whereas if you have a less .. rigid.. ownership model, it becomes completely trivial.

        I agree that the allocation model and ownership model are independent concepts. I mentioned arena allocation because the people I know that reject the traditional C++ ownership model generally tend to favor arenas, scratch space, freelists, etc. I'm specifically interested in an ownership model that works with arenas, and tracks ownership of the group of allocations, as opposed to the typical case we think about with RAII where we track ownership of individual allocations.

        • HarHarVeryFunny 1 minute ago
          That "nest of objects point to each other" makes no sense ... RAII is just a technique where you choose to tie resource management to the lifetime of an object (i.e. acquire in constructor, release in destructor).

          If an exception gets thrown, causing your RAII object scope to be exited, then no problem - the object destructor gets called and the resource gets released (this is the entire point of RAII - to make resource allocation and deallocation automatic and bullet-proof).

          If you are creating spaghetti-like cross-referencing data structures, then that is either poor design or something you are doing deliberately because you need it. In either case, it has nothing to do with RAII.

          RAII could obviously be used to allocate/free a resource (e.g. temp buffer) from a free list, but is not really relevant to arena allocation unless you are talking about managing the allocation/release of the entire arena.

          The whole point of an area allocator is the exact opposite of RAII - you are deliberately disconnecting individual item allocation from release so that you instead do a more efficient bulk (entire arena) release.

      • einpoklum 2 hours ago
        In my library [1], wrapping the CUDA APIs in modern C++, I do allocations which are not exactly from an arena, but something in that neighborhood - memory spaces on context on GPU devices.

        Unlike the GP suggests, and like you suggest, I have indeed embraced RAII in the library - generally, not just w.r.t. memory allocation. I have not, however, replicated that idioms of the standard library. So, for example:

        * My allocations are never typed.

        * The allocation 'primitives' return a memory_region type - essentially a pointer and a size; I discourage the user from manipulating raw pointers.

        * Instead of unique_ptr's, I encourage the use of unique_span's: owning, typed, lightweight-ish containers - like a fusion of std::span<T> and std::unique_ptr<T[]> .

        I wonder if that might seem less annoying to GP.

        ---

        [1] : https://github.com/eyalroz/cuda-api-wrappers/

    • GrowingSideways 1 hour ago
      Such a model likely would not be referred to as "ownership". This is a relatively recent metaphor for memory management that came well after the concepts you mentioned. The fact that such a metaphor is core to rust's memory model is no coincidence.
  • einpoklum 2 hours ago
    The title reminds of this:

    https://youtu.be/TGfQu0bQTKc?si=7TiDRic6LaWI1Xpc&t=70

    "In Rust you need to worry about borrowing. In C++ you don't have to worry about borrowing; in C++ you have to worry about ownership, which is an old concept..." :-P